Tim Tebow resides in a strange place in our sports world. He’s a hero to millions, beloved for his morals and those wild comebacks for the Broncos in 2011. He’s a folk hero in Florida. For a time, he was a folk hero in Colorado.
But he also resides in football limbo. He’s a superlative athlete, but his left arm does not appear NFL ready. That’s not just my view. That’s the view of every general manager and coach in the NFL.
Can he revive his career?
Doug Flutie and Joe Theismann were once in the same football limbo where Tebow now finds himself. They, too, appeared to lack required features for NFL stardom or even NFL survival. Both were too short. Both found success, even though they had to wait. Both used the doubts of the powers that be in the NFL as inspiration.
Many of Tebow’s most devoted fans believe there’s some kind of conspiracy in NFL to deny their hero what he deserves. That’s ridiculous.
But those devoted fans are not blind. They see a superb leader. They see one of the NFL’s all-time best running quarterbacks. What I mean is, when Tebow busts out of the pocket and looks downfield, he’s incredibly dangerous to a defense. I’m not saying he ranks with Roger Staubach and John Elway and Steve Young as a combo runner/passer. So, yes, Tebow admirers, there is reason to believe in his future. He could someday silence the doubters.
And I’m one of them. Tebow looks on his way to the NFL junk heap.
But I hope he proves me wrong.
He needs to go play in the Canadian league to improve as a thrower. There is no shame in that, some good qb’s have dome that in the past.
Should be “done” Sorry!
Yeah no question. I don’t think there’ any doubt Tebow spawned interest in a whole new kind of quarterback. The NFL is filling up with superlative running QBs like RG3 and Russell Wilson. But they all just happen to be better thowers than Tebow. Sometimes the pioneers get buried by the second wave.
Tebow? A pioneer?!?
In addition to those who Ramsey already listed, there was also Michael Vick…Donovan McNabb…Vince Young…Steve McNair…Kordell Stewart…Daunte Culpepper…Randall Cunningham…others who were also successful at scrambling, but not necessarily used primarily as ‘running QBs’.
Not that all have them have been successful, of course, but the fact that they were all starting QBs shows the interest has always been there. It’s just more prevalent across the entire league, now, especially with rules changes to protect QB’s more.
But the only pioneering Tebow did was in creating the act of……..Tebowing.
I get a kick out of all those outstanding sports fans that probably never played a down (except maybe on an XBOX) talking trash about Tebow. You all loved him before Peyton came to town because his stepped in and got the almighty Broncos into the playoffs. Don’t get me wrong Peyton is the greatest I have ever seen. He is football. But to trash Tebow because he isn’t a throwing QB and others are is sad. He is an athlete but more importantly he is a leader. You all give true meaning to Monday morning quarterback
Dave I disagree with you on your NFL conspiracy comment. Your comment that every general manager and coach in the NFL doesn’t think Tebow’s arm is NFL ready would support the notation that there is an unofficial scheme not to play Tebow. If there wasn’t, why would teams who have no need for another QB even comment on Tebow? There is no doubt that his arm isn’t the greatest but he was much sought after in college and in the NFL draft. Would a clean cut, god fearing, run oriented QB change the paradigm in the NFL that has a rep as a hard playing (partying), law violating, bash your opponent face in , blood and guts player game? Sure it would. Just like the thought of playing a woman kicker would. The game evolved from a run dominated game in the early days to a passing game today. Passing gives quick results and high scores. Running is about grinding out lower scores. Today’s society wants to see instant results and higher scores. Tebow would not do that.
The coaches and GM’s being the be all’s and know all’s of the game? If that was true there would not be bloody Mondays after every season. The number of coaches and GM’s fired every year by the team owners has to have an effect on the government’s unemployment numbers. As for what the combined brain trusts in the Jets organization did to him but using him to sell tickets and to run down his value in the trade market is shameful.
I get a kick out of all those outstanding sports fans that probably never coached a down (except maybe on an XBOX) talking trash about NFL coaches and GMs. You all love them when they get the almighty Broncos into the playoffs. But to not trash Tebow because he is a “clean cut, god fearing, run oriented” QB and others are not is sad. He is an athlete and a leader but more importantly he is not a consistent passer. You all give true meaning to Monday morning manager.
Bemused, I don’t own an XBOX and I am not a Broncos fan. The Broncos fans are normally so blind to reality that they can see beyond the score of the last game. Bronco’s fans are also so blind that ANY QB that isn’t named John Elway isn’t going to be good enough. They can’t move past the fact that Elway was an average win/loss QB until some dude named Davis showed up. Without a run Elway would have never won a Super bowl. I am surmised you can wait until Monday, you seem like one of those want it now types.
As for Tebow not being a consistent player? He got your team into the playoffs and then the Jets used him as a marketing tool and didn’t let him play? How can he prove to anyone he is a consistency player if he isn’t playing?
The Broncos are not primarily my team, either (I root for the Lions), and I don’t give a hoot about Elway. My problem with Tebow, compared to other running QBs, is only in the stats. Leadership counts, but it’s only part of the picture; performance also counts, and is far more important to winning.
Look at the numbers of the running QBs in the league now, in terms of completion %, yds/completion, and QB rating (career averages):
Pct Avg Rate
Tebow 47.9 6.7 75.3
Griffin 65.6 8.1 102.4
Kaepernick 62.3 8.3 97.9
Newton 58.9 7.9 85.3
Wilson 64.1 7.9 100
Vick 56.3 7 80.6
Young 57.9 6.9 74.4
The only category where Tebow isn’t the absolute worst is in QB rating, where he is next to last above Vince Young. And Young isn’t a starter any more, either.
And Tebow isn’t even all that effective at running either, where again he has the lowest career average:
Yds/Att
Tebow 5.02
Griffin 6.79
Kaepernick 6.35
Newton 5.72
Vick 7.02
Wilson 5.20
Young 5.17
Now, can you honestly tell me that it’s a conspiracy and that all those GMs don’t know what they’re talking about? They’re looking at these same numbers, you know.
What I’ve seen about most of Tebow’s supporters is that they desperately want him to succeed because he’s a devout Christian. They would also be the first ones to trash him based on these stats if he was a clean-cut, God-hating atheist.
You say, how can he prove himself when he isn’t playing? Well, practive sessions for one thing. The coaches that did see him in practice apparently didn’t care much for what they saw there. And the stats I listed above came from games in which he DID play, so you can’t say he didn’t have opportunities. The numbers for 2011, where he started 11 of the 14 games in which he appeared, are even lower than his career average.
The sad thing about stats is that too often stats are the only things that people look at. My accountant says figures lie and liars figure. (it may be time for me to find a new accountant) If you’re going to look at a stat a good one is win/loss record. At the end of the day Payton won lots of games this season yet still lost in the playoffs. Love Payton and I changed favorite teams when the Colts trashed him, but he has a history of losing in the playoffs. Another one is that intangible of leadership and Tebow is a leader.
You over reach when you say “What I’ve seen about most of Tebow’s supporters is that they desperately want him to succeed because he’s a devout Christian. They would also be the first ones to trash him based on these stats if he was a clean-cut, God-hating atheist”. Are you one who has limited a vision so you make that comment or are you one of those who are one who hates people because they are Christians? Why do some people have to interject Tebows religion into the argument and not respect that he is a 3 time National Champion , a Heisman Trophy winner and a guy who has a better win record in the NFL than he does a loss record.
A coach who doesn’t want a player that was forced onto him can still not play the player regardless of how well or how bad he is in practice. Let’s be real Coach Ryan is in love with Sanchez. The dude even got a tat of his wife with her wearing #6 jersey? What the ^&@_?
Bemused … You proved my point. “others who were also successful at scrambling, but not necessarily used primarily as ‘running QBs’.”
Once upon a time, we had QBs that could run. Now we have QB running backs. And in that sense, yeah, I’d still say he’s a pioneer in that. Not the inventor by any means .. But definitely one who made coaches take notice. Sadly it’s the QB part that’s not measuring up in the NFL.
“Are you one who has limited a vision so you make that comment or are you one of those who are one who hates people because they are Christians?”
False dichotomy. It’s neither of those answers, actually. I’m one who refutes those who claim there is a conspiracy against Tebow BECAUSE he’s a Christian. Guess who are predominantly the ones making that claim?
” Why do some people have to interject Tebows religion into the argument ”
I don’t know — why DID you say “a clean cut, GOD FEARING, run oriented QB”? To me, his religion has nothing to do with his performance. But apparently it does to you.
“3 time National Champion , a Heisman Trophy winner”
First, the Gators only won 2 BCS championships during Tebow’s time there. Second, Tebow was the starting quarterback for only one of those; Chris Leak was the QB for the first one. You can call Tebow a national champion because he was on the winning team, but don’t pretend he was at all a major influence in them winning it.
Ask Sam Bradford, Troy Smith, Matt Leinart, Eric Crouch, and Chris Weinke if their Heisman trophies translated into success as an NFL quarterback. While you’re at it, ask Chris Leak, Vince Young, Matt Leinart and Matt Flynn if their national championships translafted into NFL success, too.
The college game is not the pro game, for reasons far too numerous to go into in a comment. If you can’t understand that, I can’t help you.
“a guy who has a better win record in the NFL than he does a loss record”
Red herring. Win/loss has more to do with the entire team than with just one person. True, the QB is typically the most important position… but you aren’t going to win many games if your defense lays down, for example. Look at Drew Brees and the Saints this year; dude threw for over 5,000 yards with 43 TDs and a 96.3 QB rating, yet the Saints finished at 7-9 despite averaging almost 29 points a game, primarily because of a poor defense. But a poor win/loss record does not make Brees a bad QB, any more than a good win/loss record makes Tebow a good one. After all, he lost a playoff game, too, if you want to put it into those terms.
Zen, you said: “I don’t think there’ any doubt Tebow spawned interest in a whole new kind of quarterback.”
Yes, there is doubt, because the interest was already there long before Tebow came along to spawn it…as evidenced by all those other QBs I listed.
You also said: “But they all just happen to be better thowers than Tebow. Sometimes the pioneers get buried by the second wave.”
…implying that Tebow was a “pioneer”. Again, he wasn’t. If anything, he is among this “second wave”, not before them. He’s only been in the NFL for three years, for Pete’s sake, only one year before Cam Newton and Colin Kaepernick. By that measure, Joe Webb is also a “pioneer”.
So using your logic Elway, Montana or Manning are only parts of a team and their skills or lack of skills therefor only contribute to the win or loss records? If that is so why do you and others all talk about other QBs with better records? Wouldn’t it be just as true that any of these guys (or any QB now) are only as good as the whole of the team? If that is true wouldn’t the QBs stats be impacted on the skills/play of the team? A dropped pass is a pass dropped by the receiver yet it is a stat against the QB. Individual stats on a team sport are the red herring. Just as is a saved game by a relief pitcher.
“So using your logic Elway, Montana or Manning are only parts of a team and their skills or lack of skills therefor only contribute to the win or loss records?”
Yes, to an extent. Dan Marino was a great QB, but he never won a Superbowl ring. Eli Manning has two rings. Which one is the better QB? This is where personal stats start having more relevance.
You did the same thing when you said that Elway only won Superbowls because of Davis. While I disagree that is necessarily the case, I would also point out that Davis only won because of Elway. It takes a good passer to stretch the defense and open the running lanes for the runner. Someone like Adrian Peterson or Barry Sanders can consistently find holes when the box is stacked against them and they don’t have a decent QB to open things up, but that wasn’t the case with Davis.
“If that is so why do you and others all talk about other QBs with better records?”
I don’t. When I am comparing QBs head-to-head, I talk about personal stats because that is as close as you can get to an accurate measure of their own skills. Even though they still incorporate a measure of the skills of others (blocking by the offensive line, skill of receivers in getting open and not dropping the ball, etc), they still rely on the QB being able to get the ball there in the first place. But there is no perfect measure and they are all going to be subjective to some degree.
“Wouldn’t it be just as true that any of these guys (or any QB now) are only as good as the whole of the team?”
Again, when talking about team records, yes. But when comparing them to other QBs, the personal stats come closer to representing the individual than the team stats do.
“Individual stats on a team sport are the red herring. Just as is a saved game by a relief pitcher.”
Really? You think that Ryan Zimmerman is better than Miguel Cabrera because the Nats (98-64) finished with a better record than the Tigers (88-74), even though Cabrera won the Triple Crown? If you honestly think that, then we’re done here.
This is where personal stats start having more relevance? Really? Personal stats have no relevance in a team sport. Manning can have a great passer rating when the line doesn’t block and he is sacked. His stats are greatly affected by the lines ability to block and the receivers who have to catch the ball. Dan Marino was a great player because he led his team to do things to make him better. We are done here because you’re a person who believes that team sports are made by a bunch of individual. I played a number of sports at a very high level but when I had great games it was because my team also had a great game. When I played great and the team didn’t no matter how great my stats were it was still a loss. Seldom had my greatness that day ended up changing a loss to a win. All great players know that and give credit to the team and not to themselves.
“Personal stats have no relevance in a team sport.”
I’ll alert the NFL, MLB, NHL, and NBA about this; they’ll be relieved to know that they can fire all their statisticians who track these things. The NFL can also cancel the upcoming combine for draft prospects, since all those personal abilities like how fast they can run and how high they can jump have no bearing on their usefulness to the team. The GMs can find out all they need to know just by looking at the players’ respective team’s win-loss record.
Oooh, but the players who have incentives in their contracts based on their personal performance aren’t going to be very happy with you….
“…his left arm does not appear NFL ready. That’s not just my view. That’s the view of every general manager and coach in the NFL.”
Really, did you survey them each one and did they appoint you their spokesperson? What over reaching and broad generalizations which you cannot support.
“(Tebow) brings his talent for the position and his athleticism to the position. There are lots of ways to be creative as an offense when you have Tim Tebow as your QB. I think he continues to grow, he is a young QB, a work in progress… his competiveness, his great desire to win and his willingness to do anything to help his team win…” (49ers’ coach Jim Harbaugh).
http://www.nfl.com/videos/san-francisco-49ers/09000d5d829d684b/What-Tim-Tebow-brings-to-Jets-Jim-Harbaugh
I wish people would stop comparing stats. Tebow is a work in progress. He started how many games? The Broncos went for Peyton so who blames them? They traded him because he deserved a chance somewhere. He never got it with the Jets. He may never get it. For some reason he does not practice well. He may need a good QB’s coach. Perhaps he will get there or perhaps he goes to the CFL. But he deserves a shot. We are debating based on a very thin record yet he was a winner. But sitting him or dumping him is not the way to tell if he can develop or not. His critics may be right. His supporters may be right. But right now the jury’s out.
Tim Tebow’s record speaks for itself.
Tebow haters will always be Tebow haters. Some morons really do hate him because he is a Christian too. He did great things for the Broncos AND for Broncos fans. He got us further than Manning did. He brought out the very best in every member of the team when he played here. THAT is a leader. And not many teams have one that could hold a candle to Tebow. Given more of a chance, he could have turned out to be a great quarterback. Elway was a moron for getting rid of him, and I have honestly always been a huge fan of Elway, but the truth has to be admitted. In a corrupted and nasty NFL, there is no doubt that a good man like Tim Tebow would never have a chance.
It’s a game, yet you people are the ones responsible for the hero worship and multi-million dollar salaries these people receive. Many players are in trouble with the law, yet some hold these athletes up as examples for our children. Tebow is one of the good examples, regardless of his religious beliefs.
Truth is – Patton did no better than Tim Tebow – both got them into a play off game – difference is Patton Manning is looking at a short run in Denver – Tim could have been the franchise player for the next 10 years – short sighted on the owner and the coaches – Denver Broncos will be looking for another QB within three years – starting over again.
The problem with Tebow is that he is left handed..The whole offense is filled with players that grew up playing right handed football..So the ball not only looks funny, it is spinning the wrong way..Also the offense is set up for right handed quarterbacks..hard to retrain the other 10 guys…Oh and the accuracy thing is a big issue…Sorry..he seems like a great person..
David….Good points. Lefty’s always looked strange to me in sports (except baseball). I can’t see how Phil Mickelson can golf the wrong way.