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A few numbers for my hockey friends from CC to consider about Air Force-CC rivalry:
February 1st, 2012, 1:57 pm · 31 Comments · posted by david ramsey
What’s the best way to define the power of a college hockey team?
That’s easy.
Wins in the NCAA Tournament.
Recently, several of my good friends from Colorado College were shocked – shocked! – when I suggested Air Force had joined CC as a national power. (Since then, both schools haven’t been playing much like national powers.)
So, here’s a couple numbers to back up my suggestion:
Since 2005, Colorado College has claimed one win in the NCAA Tournament.
Same as Air Force.
Since 2008, Colorado College has claimed two victories over Air Force.
And Air Force, during the same time, has claimed two wins over Colorado College.
Sounds pretty even to me. Maybe it’s because it is pretty even.
Does Air Force compete in a conference that boasts the same power as the WCHA, CC’s current home?
Of course not. It’s not even close. The Atlantic Hockey Association has nowhere near the prestige of the WCHA.
But that’s not the end of the discussion.
Let’s turn to college basketball. Butler competes in the Horizon Conference. Yes, I’m like you. I only recently discovered the existence of the Horizon Conference.
But the lack of might in the Horizon Conference has done nothing to limit the might of Butler’s basketball team. You don’t define a team by the conference it competes in. At least you shouldn’t.
You define the power of a college hockey team by victories in the NCAA Tournament. Or at least you should.
Since 2005, CC has one win in NCAA Tournament.
Same as Air Force.
Your thoughts?
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Ramsey you are delusional.
If AF Hockey played in the WCHA, they WOULD NEVER EVER MAKE THE NCAA TOURNAMENT PERIOD. That is a fact.
Isn’t it amazing what CC accomplishes at a great academic school with 1,900 students against the likes of Boston College, Minnesota, Wisconsin, North Dakota, Denver, etc.
CC is currently battling Denver for 3rd place in the WCHA this weekend. If AF played in the WCHA they would be battling Minnesota State or Bemidji State for 10th place.
You have NO CLUE Ramsey.
Idea for you. Check out the AF-RIT game on Friday night and then check out the CC-DU game on Saturday night. Even YOU should be able to see the difference.
Joe – Air Force defeated Colorado College this season at World ARENA.
Your contention that Air Force would never make THE NCAA Tourney if Falcons played in WCHA is your opinion, and you’re welcome TO it.
It is, on THE other hand, a fact that Air Force defeated CC. Please, don’t get opinion and fact mixed up.
Thank YOU for stopping by. And check out the caps lock on your computer. I think IT’S getting stuck.
JoeC – were you at the AF/CC game this year? Even YOU should have been able to see the difference.
A CC fan calling anyone delusional is rich with irony! LOOK AT THE SCOREBOARD BUDDY!!!
My opinion is correct. AF cannot compete with the WCHA teams week in and week out and therefore would not make the NCAA Tournament. Even Serratore would admit to that. He loves playing the likes of Canisius, Bentley, Robert Morris, Sacred Heart, AIC and winning the conference tournament automatic bid. In the WCHA AF would have a losing record and get injured.
It does suck that CC lost to Air Force this year. AF played the best they could and CC was awful for that one night and without Jaden Schwartz (CC is still what about 55-5 overall against AF). But anyone thinking of going to an AF-RIT game this weekend instead of the CC-DU game – because CC and AF are now supposedly “equals” is delusional. That’s like picking a Sky Sox game over a Rockies game. In terms of talent, arena, atmosphere and even concession selections. I hope CC takes away your press pass, have fun at Cadet Ice Arena covering Atlantic Hockey.
Another reason why CC shouldn’t even play Air Force in hockey. Just like when CC basketball beat Air Force, Air Force admitted they never want to schedule CC again. Same should be said for hockey, CC has everything to lose and nothing to gain. As a CC fan I don’t want to watch the Tigers play Air Force, Air Force plays crappy boring hockey, I’d much rather watch CC play a ranked national program. And one win gets columnists thinking the teams are on par with each other. Wow, just like Wichita State being on par with Kansas or Air Force being on par with Notre Dame, maybe once or twice every 30 years. Just like CC and Air Force : )
Joe – Glad to see you got that caps lock fixed on your computer.
Tiger – Um, it wasn’t one win. There have been two wins in the past four seasons.
And one last thing Joe:
I’ll be having fun Saturday night at CC-DU game at World Arena.
Will be at CC-DU Friday night in Denver, too.
David – is that to cover the best games or only because the sports editor told you to be at both CC games?
Personally I wouldn’t pay a dime to watch RIT, American Int’l, Bentley, Sacred Heart, Canisius play Air Force….and I don’t care to read about it either.
I’ll be at The World Arena Saturday night! Go Tigers!!!
And I love to read the coverage on CC Hockey….Thank YOU!
Considering Air Force hockey players have almost no chance to play professionally it’s pretty amazing that they can field a team that beats CC & goes to the NCAA tournament. Contrast that with nationally ranked CC. Do you think they have the same challenge recruiting players that Air Force does?
Dave,
By your logic, Butler has a better basketball program than say, Michigan State? Butler has done much better in the NCAA tournament of late, thus Butler is better than Michigan State, North Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas or any other school that has not make back-to-back Final Fours. Care to run that “theory” past anyone who KNOWS basketball?
No one who knows basketball would make that assessment, nor would anyone who KNOWS college hockey call Air Force a national power or a better program than Colorado College.
Air Force does a very nice job in a very weak league. They are a power in their league and that is the only reason they make the NCAA tournament. If the Falcons played in the WCHA, as noted by another reader, AFA could be battling to stay out of last place. Every single season.
Give all credit to AFA for pulling off the occasional upset, but upsets alone don’t make them a power.
People see what they want to see – both directions. One thing I see year after year is that Serratore consistently gets his teams to perform beyond their God-given talent while Owens teams consistently perform below expectations from their talent. If Serratore were coaching CC, I doubt we’d be having this conversation – but then again, he may not be able to recruit the talent that Owens does every year. Either way – to quote Herb Brooks after USA tied Norway – “You think you can win on talent alone?… you don’t have enough talent to win on talent alone.”
JoeC,
Care to line it up against us in football? Oh sorry, all those athletic department $$ are invested in hockey, dropped football a few years ago…..and non-US “collegiate athletes” in those hockey games as well. Buy a program at the next CC game you go to and see where your “boys” call “hometown”. OH CANADA?!?!?!? Sorry. Good thing all our football jocks have US passports and actually take up to defend the flag with their lives?!?!?!
Love the classy CC student chant for our goalie when he’s in your end at the World Arena…..”#&*$…. #&*$…you suck )%*!” You will NEVER hear that at Cadet Ice Arena. Save that crap for DU.
Seeya next year in our barn!!!!! GO FALCONS!!!!!!!!
Sam – By my logic, Butler has been the second-best team in the country the past two seasons.
Not sure how you can argue with that “theory.”
Butler has played in the title game the past two seasons. Michigan State didn’t play in the title game. Kansas didn’t. North Carolina didn’t.
That’s my point. I’m not talking about history. I’m talking about right now.
Same with Air Force-CC. Right now, the teams are essentially even. I’m not talking about 2003. I’m talking about right now.
What it comes down to is that AF v CC is a local rivalry. When they play each other, you won’t see a typical regular-season game. CC is a much stronger team and program overall, and I agree that if AF was in the WCHA, they wouldn’t fair too well. At any level, teams play differently in a rivalry game. Additionally, teams at any level play down to lesser teams. This is the case with AF v CC.
Dave,
Butler had the second best tournament run in the country the past two seasons. Put Butler in the Big Ten(12), the Big 12 (8), the SEC, Big East, etc. and they get chewed up.
Butler in the NCAA tournament has had a great run for a mere two years. All credit to them. That doesn’t put their program on the same level as Kentucky, North Carolina, Duke, etc.
Same holds true for AFA hockey. Easy conference, easy road to the tournament, one or two regular season games to get UP for.
AFA has had two recent victories over CC. Again, all credit to the Falcons for pulling off two upsets. That doesn’t make them CC’s equal. It means they have beaten them twice. That’s it.
AFA is doing great things. But nobody who knows college hockey would call AFA’s program on equal ground with CC.
Take your blinders off and look at the big picture.
Dave – a couple of years ago you wrote an article about how DU is the evil empire from the north and that they have the upper hand on CC. Well, AFA beat them in January of 2008 so they have one win over DU in the past five seasons and two over CC in the past five seasons. Does that also mean that AFA is even with DU like you say they are with CC?
CC is actually harder to get into than the Air Force Academy. Both excellent schools, but it’s harder to get into CC.
And I’ll take watching Minnesota, Duluth, North Dakota, Denver, Wisconsin, St. Cloud at the World Arena any day before wasting my money on watching AF vs. RIT or Mercyhurst or Bentley, have fun with that. Why do you think CC has more fans in Colorado Springs than the Falcons.
Dave – Dec. 30, 2011 – Air Force 2, Colorado College 1
Dec. 31, 2011 – Denver 7, Air Force 1
Thanks for letting me answer your answer.
Dave – There isn’t much difference between one win versus two wins. Your referring to CC and AFA being equal because of two wins by AFA over CC in the past four years. AFA has one win over DU in the past five years. Based on this aren’t AFA and DU equal?
Ramsey really knows how to stir the pot, doesn’t he? He misses his friends from BYU, so now he pokes at poor little insecure CC hockey fan. The effect is the same . . . you ignore inconvenient facts, react with emotional rants, and my person favorite . . . the delusions of grandeur!
But at least BYU football fan could claim to have won a national championship within most of our lifetimes. At least they had that. For poor insecure CC fan, they point to their last championship in the ’50′s (yes, the 1950′s) as evidence that they’re still an “elite” national program.
At the end of the day, “CC” still means Central Connecticut or Coastal Carolina to the vast majority of people outside a 100-mile radius of C-Springs. But fear not my friends, you still serve an important purpose for those of us who read this blog . . . first rate amusement.
Oh, and yes, I will take some fries with that . . .
MKL you are an a**
CC Hockey is much more successful than ANY Air Force team. Football is the only competitive sport. AF hockey isn’t even ranked in the Top 30 and AF B-Ball is about #150 in the nation. You guys suck have fun at sh**y Cadet Ice Arena, we don’t want you
Why aren’t we talking CC-DU? Our rival.
Air Force is not CC’s rival.
Air Force Hockey is a nothing program that has been lucky twice in 30 years. We shouldn’t even play the Falcons, our team treats it as an exhibition game.
Go Tigers, Beat DU!
CCSec116 – “Our team treats it as an exhibition game.”
Really? More than a little doubtful about that statement.
Never heard anyone from CC say anything remotely like what you said.
Classy Scott! Emotional, knee jerk, ignores facts, a few 4-letter bombs directed at fans of one of your nation’s Service Academies. Exactly what we’ve come to expect from CC hockey fan on this blog.
You made my point far better than I ever could have! Back under your rock, junior.
David Ramsey – why would CC schedule AF right after Christmas when they knew their best player, Jaden Schwartz would be playing for Team Canada?
Do you understand the PairWise Rankings? A CC win or loss to AF does not matter. But CC wins over Top 30, “Teams Under Consideration” do matter.
CC shouldn’t even schedule AF. It’s AF’s Super Bowl and CC thinks its an easy win……which losing 2 games in 30 years does hurt (me at least) but the CC team doesn’t care, they see the bigger picture as a team with true National Championship aspirations
JoeC – “The CC team doesn’t care.”
What?
“The CC team doesn’t care.”
That’s an extremely damning statement. That says absolutely awful things about the team you claim to support.
Fortunately, the statement is false. Scott Owens would never allow a team he coaches to not care about one of the bigger games of the season.
Kid yourself all you want.
The Air Force game is a big game for CC coaches, fans, faculty and, yes, fans.
Which game is bigger?
CC vs. AF or CC vs. DU?
CC vs. AF or CC vs. North Dakota?
CC vs. AF or CC vs. Minnesota?
CC vs. AF or CC vs. Wisconsin?
CC vs. AF or CC vs. Duluth?
If you don’t know the real answer to that…you just don’t understand CC Hockey……you may need to attend more than 4 games a season.
To THE BIRD:
CC does not receive any TAX Dollars (State or Federal), unlike Air Force which is completely funded by tax dollars…….and Air Force still sucks, we all know it’s the US Army and Marines that really defend our country by putting their lives on the line. That’s why most Fort Carson troops are at the CC Hockey games and not Air Force, just a “little” more entertaining and they can enjoy an adult beverage….because they can handle it.
Wow nice post Ed. Classy, classy, classy! Once again, it tells you all you need to know about the mouth-breathing CC fans who post here.
I’ve never heard so mush insecurity in all my life. But you guys sure are fun to laugh at…
… especially when the SCOREBOARD still says, AF-2, CC-1.
Feel free to run your mouths the years when you can actually beat us!
CC fans are pissed because we’re not used to losing. Haven’t had a losing season in about 20 years.
But I know Falcon fans are used to losing records.
So losing to a crap program like Air Force hurts. Thank goodness we typically kick your ass.
MKL do you even go to AF hockey games? Last time I went to Cadet Ice Arena about 600 people were in the stands and it was boring awful hockey.
CC will never be comparable to AF and that’s a good thing. We’ll keep winning big games against national programs, running businesses, saving lives and educating America. You all can keep dropping bombs or fixing satellites.
Gold Pan to CC!
What trophy is there for the CC-AF series? Oh yeah, there isn’t one because you can’t have a rivalry when it’s dominated by one team – CC (56-7-2) over AF.