34 Comments

• The Bird says:

  September 22, 2011 at 2:57 pm

  David,

  I agree with your analysis but you must consider where the greater Air Force that the Academy serves is headed. Massive downsizing after ten years of buildup since 9-11 is coming and coming quickly. Gould and Calhoun know this. They have been briefed on what is coming down the pike. The Big East is essentially two separate conferences anyway. A football conference and a very different basketball conference. The Big East as we know it today will look nothing like the Big East that it’s becoming. I expect TCU to back out of it’s commitment to join. TCU alums are not enthralled at all with their current logistics to follow the Horned Frogs starting next year. AFA has no business adding all that travel, expense, and time out of classes to join the Big East.

  The Academy still exists to serve a greater master…..the Air Force. As such the Academy will have to flex with a student body which in two years could very likely be under 4000 strong. Calhoun and company have been told they will have to “do more with less”. AFA football used to bring in 100+ football recruits a year with about 25-35 making an impact over 4 years. Now they are lucky to bring in half of that. Selection and retention are the cornerstones of a successful program.

  Maybe it’s time to change with the times and put the “glory days” egos aside and get back to what the REAL greater purpose of our service academies are. I would have no problem with all of our academies dropping down to 1-AA across the board. There’s nothing “less admirable” about it. America is changing in big ways. Why shouldn’t our academies follow suit?

  AFA has 2 options here. Stay put in the MWC or go independent. When in doubt, maintain the status quo. They can always go independent once the dust settles. Whatever the decision is, i just hope it’s well thought out for both the short term as well as the greater good of the long term needs of the Air Force it serves.
• W.T. Door says:

  September 22, 2011 at 8:33 pm

  It takes a lot of courage to take on the likes of South Dakota, Tennessee State, and the myriad of MWC bottom feeders.
• Icarus says:

  September 22, 2011 at 8:56 pm

  Dave says:
  “Road trips will become much more demanding and draining on the academy’s student/athletes”

  Have you really thought this one through? Is a four hour flight any more demanding than a two hour flight? The demand is packing, bus to the airport, security, waiting around, getting to the hotel, etc etc. Not the length of the flight. Take this years schedule. I don’t have the hard facts but I’m pretty sure we fly to Navy, ND, Boise, N Mex. Last year we flew to OK,SanDiego,Ft Worth, New York, Las Vegas.
  All the big East does, practically, is add ONE FLIGHT a year to the current flight schedule, because we only lose the current bustrip to Ft Collins/Laramie, And we could add that back in by scheduling them OCC, in which case there would be ZERO impact!

  Your comment that road trips will be much more demanding for the cadets has not been well thought out and is a poor reason for not joining the Big East. I can think of a number of reasons for staying put, but this isn’t one of them.

  Regards,
  Icarus
• rew says:

  September 22, 2011 at 9:03 pm

  “The Midshipmen could pick their opponents and always did a fantastic job of selecting cupcakes.” … Good point, by being in a conference AF was able to have their cupcakes selected for them. FSU? Oregon? Nah, play bad DI-AA teams instead.
• Scott says:

  September 22, 2011 at 9:21 pm

  Good point about Navy and their independence. While it’s true they play their share of Delawares and Dukes, bringing the option to relatively new opponents each year inherently gives them an advantage. The option in conference play is a heck of a lot more challenging as opponents are somewhat familiar. While Navy should be praised for its effort at USC, it really isn’t that surprising–they have an advantage AF doesn’t have for a lot of games.
• RRF11 says:

  September 22, 2011 at 10:16 pm

  Over the last decade, those cowards over at Navy have beaten more BCS opponents than Air Force has, been to more bowls, and have largely dominated the other service academies. I respect the fact that this is an opinion piece, even if in this case your opinion is laughable and uninformed.
• david ramsey says:

  September 22, 2011 at 10:37 pm

  Always good to hear from my many, many friends from Navy.

  Navy has dominated service-academy football. That’s obvious. Navy has been the best team overall among the service academies. That’s obvious.

  Navy takes the easy road as an indy.

  That’s obvious.
• Michael Simler says:

  September 22, 2011 at 11:18 pm

  >Navy is no longer in possession of the CIC Trophy – Obvious
  >AF continues to hold a significant lead over Navy in terms of possession of/earning the the Trophy – Obvious
  >There was absolutely no domination by Navy over AF in terms of points on the board during their win streak – Obvious
  >Navy developed a very good formula to create a winning program that placed them in a position to win the CIC Trophy, have successful seasons, win bowl games and gain back respectability for their program – Obvious
  >Stating that there was anything “cowardly” about the Naval Academy’s approach to improving their program was said in poor taste and deserves an apology – Obvious

  I am definitively not a Mid fan and would love to see the Falcons “dominate” them on their home field next weekend, but I admire their return to being an opponent that AF has to respect and work very hard at to beat.

  BEAT NAVY!
  Mike
• Joe Gish says:

  September 23, 2011 at 8:03 am

  David,

  You appear to put your heart before your head in evaluating Navy football. I would expect a writer for the revered Colorado Springs Gazette to look at the facts before raking the muck.

  Since 2003, Navy owns an 18-21 (.462) record against schools from a BCS conference.. Navy’s 18 BCS wins are the most by a non-BCS school since 2003.

  Navy has beaten at least one BCS opponent in eight-consecutive years, which is the second-longest active streak in the country by a non-BCS school. TCU has had at least one BCS win in nine-consecutive seasons.

  Navy always plays better when Air Force talks trash. Thanks for helping the cause.
• JGish says:

  September 23, 2011 at 8:39 am

  Playing in “a conference” matters if it’s a a legit conference. With Utah and BYU gone, TCU (for this year) and Boise State (going, going, ….) are the only teams that give the MWC a shred of legitimacy.

  AF couldn’t make it as an indy….as it is, they can’t find enough FBS teams to get 11 FBS games. Moreover, even as the only FBS team to schedule TWO FCS games, they can’t even find decent FCS teams (App State, Delaware, etc.) who will give them the time of day.

  Without having the chance to get drilled by TCU every year, how will AF fill out a credible schedule going forward?

  Pathetic.
• rew says:

  September 23, 2011 at 9:14 am

  “Navy takes the easy road as an indy.” … You can say that as many times as you want but it doesn’t change history. AF has 2 games to schedule per year now that there are 12 game regular seasons.

  AF wanted to back out of a home game with Florida State. Florida State in turn said to just cancel the whole series then. AF could have played Oregon this year, but decided against it. Instead they scheduled bad DI-AA teams.

  Since 2003 the only teams AF has voluntarily scheduled is:
  2003 Northwestern – who was 6-7 & AF beat by only 1 point
  2004 California – who was 10-2 team that pounded AF 56-14
  2005 Washington – who was 2-9 & AF beat by only 3 points
  2006 Tennessee – who was 9-4 & probably the best showing by AF losing by only 1 point
  2006 Notre Dame – who was 10-3 & pounded AF 39-17
  2007 South Carolina State – a 7-4 DI-AA team
  2007 Notre Dame – who was 3-9 & the second best showing by AF winning 41-24
  2008 Southern Utah – a 4-7 DI-AA team
  2008 Houston – a freak game played in Dallas in the remnants of a hurricane because they couldn’t play in Houston & AF won by 3 points
  2009 Nichols State – a 3-8 DI-AA team
  2009 Minnesota – a 6-7 team who beat AF 20-13
  2010 Northwestern State – a 5-6 DI-AA team
  2010 Oklahoma – who was 12-2 game & good performance by AF
  2011 South Dakota – another DI-AA team
  2011 Tennessee State – another DI-AA team

  Wow, 8 BCS AQ games in 8 years, only 4 of those teams had winning records so it isn’t like AF is voluntarily scheduling powerhouse teams. Six were DI-AA teams, only 1 with a winning record (granted, that is out of four teams as those two powerhouses for 2011 are still TBD).

  Every other team is predetermined by the conference (Army & Navy are essentially predetermined as well obviously). Whether the AF schedule is full of cupcakes or powerhouses is completely out of their control other than those 2 games (now that there is a 12 game regular season). So don’t act like AF takes the high road while Navy takes the easy road when it comes to scheduling. AF chooses effectively no road and simply has to ride wherever the conference river takes them, other than those DI-AA teams which were chosen over Florida State & Oregon.

  Bowl games don’t count because you don’t get to pick your opponent there either so that game isn’t determined by AF (or Navy or any other team for that matter).

  Since Navy become a decent team in 2003, Navy has scheduled Ohio State, Notre Dame (every year since 1928 with many many many more good teams than bad), Rutgers, Pitt, South Carolina, Penn State (in 2012), Maryland, Wake Forest, Stanford, and plenty of other non-AQ BCS schools that could easily compete with anyone in the MWC.

  Don’t forget that Navy has to schedule every game, nothing is decided for them except Army & AF. Notre Dame is a contract that has to be periodically renewed – it is assumed that it will be renewed, but not guaranteed. Until recently the MWC has had 3 good teams, AF & maybe 1 other decent teams, and the rest were terrible teams.

  So you really want to compare who Navy has scheduled with who AF has voluntarily scheduled? AF’s schedule is a lemming following the MWC.

  “Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please.” – Mark Twain
• TJ says:

  September 23, 2011 at 9:16 am

  Navy has been an Independent in football for 133 years continuously. Please identify the year in which it became “cowardly” to stay independent … maintaining the status quo that you put a premium on.
• david ramsey says:

  September 23, 2011 at 9:45 am

  OK, Navy did show courage this season by scheduling Western Kentucky (losers of 35 of last 39) and San Jose State (losers of 28 of last 31.)

  Please, don’t set me up as an Air Force fan. I’m hearing from Navy fans who keep wanting to justify Navy’s actions and boost Navy’s actions by comparing those actions to Air Force’s.

  I’m not an Air Force fan. You guys are fans. I’m a journalist.

  I’ve criticized Air Force for scheduling cupcakes. Scheduling Tennessee State this Saturday accomplishes nothing.

  But Air Force has no control over playing CSU, New Mexico, Vegas and Wyoming. And no control over Boise State, TCU and, in the old days, BYU. That’s the reality of life in a conference.

  The reality Navy coaches, players and, yes, fans never have experienced.

  Hope the Midshipmen manage to battle to a win over those mighty Spartans from San Jose State. Good luck on that one.

  To my friends from Navy, this is my last comment. I’m moving on to other subjects.

  If you take the time to scroll down to a blog post from a couple days ago, you’ll see me complimenting the Midshipmen’s performance against South Carolina and suggesting Navy should be a favorite against Air Force next week.

  Again, let me remind you:

  You’re fans of Navy and being a fan results in blurry, blinded-by-love vision. I know this. I’m a fan, too.

  Just not of the Falcons. I’m a journalist intensely interested in Air Force athletics, but I’m not a fan. You can pretend I’m a fan, but pretending is pointless if you’re older than 10.
• Edgar says:

  September 23, 2011 at 11:49 am

  Navy takes “The easy road” as an Indy? It’s easy to say, but a little bit more difficult to back up with actual facts.

  According to http://www.sports-reference.com...

  Since 2003, Navy has played 40 BCS opponents. Over that same period of time, Air Force has played just 10 BCS teams. Of Navy’s 40 BCS opponents, 10 were ranked. Air Force has played just 4 ranked BCS opponents since 2003.

  Overall, Navy has played 11 ranked opponents since 2003. Air Force has played 14 ranked opponents over that same period of time, but 10 of them were in-conference–Utah, TCU or BYU.

  Since 2003, Air Force has played 7 teams from I-AA (Now, called FCS). Navy has played 10 FCS teams, but 5 of those 10 were games against local rival Delaware, a perennial FCS playoff power.

  Whether you want to believe it or not, Navy’s strength of schedule is every bit as challenging or more challenging than Air Force’s on an annual basis.

  I know you’re not a ‘fan’ but a journalist. However, being a journalist does not preclude you from being wrong.
• Alan says:

  September 23, 2011 at 11:50 am

  Dave,
  I owned as many as 12 season tickets a year, for 23 years, but gave them up 6 years ago. The Mountain West is a poor conference to be in. The AFA fan base is older than most colleges, so sitting in a frigid stadium at night in October and November, is a terrible experience, especially for the Denver area fans.. Thursday night games and Saturday games starting at 4pm or later, became a common happening with the MWC.

  AFA should pass on Conf.USA and the Big East East. They should go independent. Leave CSU,Wyo,NM, Navy & Army on the schedule and fill the schedule with ND, CU and 4 other schools. Couldn’t be any worse than playing SD and Tenn St. at home in September, no home games in October on a Saturday and a 4pm game the end of November! A tv partnership with Army and Navy on CBSCS would be better than the small tv coverage the Mountain West Channel, offers.
• Journalist says:

  September 23, 2011 at 12:08 pm

  Dave Ramsey: Journalist as MSNBC: Journalism
• Jake says:

  September 23, 2011 at 4:51 pm

  First, if the Big 12 came calling that is a very good conference and definately an upgrade. In addition I wouldn’t blame the Falcons if they go East. However, what an oppurtunity. I believe as a MWC fan we all have complained about the inequities of rewarding some teams that do not deserve it while holding back teams(ie Boise) that might deserve a shot. This system is a cartel that, for the sake of greed and money, is basterdizing college athletics. It is a visious cycle that makes the TCUs leave for a conference that is no better than the MWC. Wouldn’t it be amazing for AFA, on a national stage, be the first to have the “guts ” to say no to the money. To tell the national media the Big East does not deserve AQ status more than the MWC. Talk about honor!
• Jgot says:

  September 23, 2011 at 7:18 pm

  I won’t challenge your statement that you are not an Air Force fan. But you do seem to go out of your way to take shots at the Navy football program.

  Ps: Navy is 9-6 or .600 winning percentage against the MWC since 2001. Air Force is 40-36 or .526. The in conference winning percentage of the MWC teams that Navy has played in that time period? .561 (60-47). Eleven of those games against teams with better than .500 records in MWC play the year that Navy played them. The five teams that did not have above .500 co ference records were all AFA teams.Seems like Navy has fared pretty well against the MWC teams.
• J.T. says:

  September 23, 2011 at 9:00 pm

  David,

  I agree that the Big East may not be the best conference for football. But it’s not about geography – it’s that the future of the BE conference is just too uncertain. That said, the future of the MWC is pretty clear – it’s going to remain a second-tier league that will have to react to every other future conference shuffle. There is also little hope that its TV contract will ever generate a revenue level that keeps the MWC attractive to its top members (see recent decisions by BYU, Utah, TCU…). If Air Force can find a solid and stable league that will take football only (and this is what makes the current Big East “offer” so appealing to me despite the uncertain status of the conference…), Air Force should jump at the chance. Moving from the MWC may make it harder for local fans to travel to support the Falcons, but AF has a national fanbase that will support the football team on the road. The remaining sports need to find another league, perhaps the Big Sky or Missouri Valley, where they can better compete. This is especially important for the women’s teams. The bottom line for me is that AF can recruit and play football at a top level, but that is not the case for the other sports. Navy and Army have figured that out – they are Independents in football but play in the Patriot League in most other sports. AF should find a way to do the same, even if it means going Independent in football.
• Tom D. says:

  September 23, 2011 at 9:24 pm

  You say you’re not an Air Force fan, and that you are a journalist.

  You are also a “homer” and a moran. Good luck AFA against Tenn. State – at home.
• Bill Marsh says:

  September 23, 2011 at 10:12 pm

  I strongly object to your use of the term ‘cowardly’ with regards to Navy football. I think ‘strongly object’ doesn’t really cover my feelings here. To use that term in any way to describe the young men at the Naval Academy is outrageous.

  Clearly Navy has used it’s ‘independent status to schedule a series of ‘cupcake’ teams like South Carolina, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Penn State, Missouri, Georgia Tech, etc over the last couple of years. They regularly play teams in the ACC, SEC, Big East, Pac-10 and other conferences. Clearly cupcakes compared to Air Force playing perennial football powerhouses like Colorado State, Wyoming, and New Mexico, not to mention the 1-AA bottom dwellers this year (like skipping Oregon to play Ten State – clearly a courageous move – much braver than anything Navy does).
• Bill Marsh says:

  September 23, 2011 at 10:16 pm

  “To my friends from Navy, this is my last comment. I’m moving on to other subjects.”

  When the going gets tough, the tough get going. Hate to break this to you, but you have no Navy friends. We don’t ‘friend’ cowards.
• Lucky Bag says:

  September 24, 2011 at 6:08 am

  Ramsey is a journalist is like saying Geraldo has ethics. Navy cowardly – At least five SEALS from each football graduateing class. AF afew hundred fans to conference games – Navy several thousand to every away game.

  Ramsey – last words on this subject – should be last words in print forever
• Eric K says:

  September 24, 2011 at 7:51 am

  I respect the fact that you are a journalist and not a fan. It’s good to promote some rivalry. However, as a journalist who covers our service academies, “cowardly” was a poor choice words.
• jimbo84 says:

  September 24, 2011 at 8:28 am

  jeez dave – are you writing a tongue in cheek article? Or did you read any articles that were written when BYU decdied to go independant? ‘Easy’ wasn’t a word to describe the process.

  But that’s beside the point. Your article was more of an attack piece than a though piece or pros and cons concerning the various options for AF football. Indy status may or may not be right for them – but making your argument that it’s easy because “navy’ has it easy as an indy is very weak – you’re a better reporter than that.

  Schedule comparison (adn right now we’d say Univ of Col probably plays the hardest schedule this year in the country) can really only be done at the end of the year -and even then it’s subjective. I don’t know – you really want to look at AF’s schedule this year right now and decide whether it’s Easy or Hard?

  I don’t kow Dave – sounded like you’re jealous of navy – and please don’t just focus on that sentence; but re-read your words before you push – ‘print.’
• Tyler says:

  September 24, 2011 at 10:05 am

  Just about everything that I’ve wanted to say has already been said. It’s obvious that you have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about, and this is a sad attempt at “journalism”. I understand this is an op-ed, but all you say in this piece is how Navy is a “coward” for being independent, and not joining a conference. Everyone else has already broken down the stats, and showed that you are utterly wrong. Navy plays some of the toughest schools in the country every year. Obviously we play cupcakes, as do yall. We can’t recruit to the extent that others can, so if the service academies played ranked schools every week we would all be 2-10 or 3-9 at the end of the year just because of the simple fact that our players aren’t allowed to be 300 pound behemoths and we are at a disadvantage because we can’t get the top 5 star recruits every year.

  But I will tell you what we can get. We get players who don’t have egos, agents, or bloated expectations about millions of dollars that they are entitled to once they graduate. We have players who absolutely love the game and who put 110% on the line every single game, even when they’re supposed to lose by 17 points (as in our case with USC this past weekend). I am immensely proud of my football team, and I know many members on the Navy team, including my roommate. I can guarantee you that none of them are cowards.

  Being independent is tougher than being in a conference. You don’t get the conference payouts or the luxury of playing the New Mexicos and UNLVs of the world every year. We do play some no-names, but we also play some pretty tough teams. Our record against BSC teams blows AFA’s out of the water, and for you to sit on your high horse and talk down about Navy football is absolutely laughable. I hope you seriously consider the effect your words have-calling future members of our military cowards, and members of our administration cowards. I hope you actually do some research before you post such ridiculous words again. And I hope you don’t cry too hard when Navy smacks a non-cowardly conference team around come October 3.

  Oh, and good luck with tennessee state-they are such a powerhouse every year…
• Fred Davis says:

  September 24, 2011 at 11:16 am

  “..I’m a journalist.”

  Dave – I am sure their are many things you have been called in your life, but in no way, shape or form would it ever have been even remotely accurate for you to have been called a “journalist”.
• Gordon Peterson says:

  September 24, 2011 at 11:23 am

  It is discouraging to see a supposedly well-informed sports columnist take a cheap shot at any service academy team by referring to them as cowardly for any reason. I’ll bet my next paycheck I know what Mr Ramsey did NOT do when he graduated from school. Why not write a sports column about the post-9/11 service academy alumni who have payed the ultimate sacrfice following graduation? How many colleges in the country can match that “record?”

  And please don’t overlook the sailors, SEALS, and Marines numbered in those ranks who graduated from Navy, football players included.

  At the end of the day, football is just a game. As with all sports, it can teach us much about ourselves, leadership, setting goals, and the value of hard work. However, much larger challenges await the men and women at the service academies who step forward to serve our nation.

  Gordon Peterson
  Captain, USN (Ret.)
• Navy68 says:

  September 24, 2011 at 6:12 pm

  When is AF going to stop sucking off the federal teat and pay for their intercollegiate sports, as Navy does?
• Tom G says:

  September 24, 2011 at 8:04 pm

  David,
  I don’t think the real problem with your commentary is the relative difference of the Air Force and Navy schedules. I think it is the reference to any of the military service academys as “cowardly”, particularly the Naval Academy which provides officers too both the Marine Corps and Navy Seals. I wouldn’t recommend that you make such a comment anywhere in public. Did you specialize in “Stupid Studies” at Denver South?
• Lucky Bag says:

  September 25, 2011 at 7:20 pm

  Oh yes. We all forgot that you have decided to not respond to any more comments. Cowardly, immature, or amateur ? Can’t decide. But never want you in my trench ! Glad your H.S. creds carried your this far.
• Snake says:

  September 25, 2011 at 8:10 pm

  David,

  I don’t think you’re a homer or a “moran.”
• USNA70 says:

  September 26, 2011 at 1:35 pm

  read your recent article commenting on Navy’s being an independent- at least in football. I can understand your homership for the AFA Falcons, but denigrating a service academy as being ‘cowardly’ is a bit much. Particularly so when we are at war- especially the Marine Corps (USNA grads) and the Army. The Navy football team has lost at least three alumni in SE Asia- and both Army and Navy have had too many grads severely injured in combat. . You could have come up with a better word.

  As for Fisher DeBerry grousing about Navy- Navy and Army grads and coaches used to grouse about USAFA having the prep school at the Academy. This had to be an advantage- and Army is now moving USMAPS to West Point. That and the fact that the Air Force is usually seen as a more comfortable service that the others and easier to recruit for. And I have heard numerous Army and Navy sports recruiters complain about that pitch from USAFA coaches. As far as cupcakes, USAFA has its share as well.

  I agree that USAFA joining the Big East – at least in football is a big step- not sure if that is the way to go with the Academies, much less a school in the Mountain Time Zone.
• Opinion Column Apprentice says:

  September 26, 2011 at 2:17 pm

  As a sports writer for a paper in Colorado Springs, home to the United States Air Force Academy, I would expect you to write articles based SOMEWHAT from a factual perspective…not just to generate an “oooh, ahhh” response from other fans. Granted, what you write is an opinion…but its an opinion that I think would be laughed at by a huge majority of our society. Every year, Navy plays AT LEAST 2 teams that have the potential of being ranked in the top 25. Ohio State from last year was a real cupcake, and yes, USC again this year (We play Notre Dame every year too by the way). Look at SMU’s schedule, Southern Miss, Troy… Can they say the same? Next time you’re fishing for something to generate the “oooh, ahh” response, I’ve got some great ideas for you.

  Try this one… take the offensive line average player weight of one of our “cupcake opponents” and compare it to the average offensive line of the Naval Academy… Notre Dame (Cupcake)- 305.6lbs, South Carolina (Cupcake)309lbs , Ohio State (Cupcake)303.8, but those are too easy. Lets try the real cupcakes: Southern Miss (Definite Cupcake after smacking UVA last week) 306.2, SMU (always a cupcake) 306.4…I’d continue, but you get the idea. Navy tips the scales at 275-and don’t forget that after the last football game of the season, every one of the seniors cut down to “Navy Standards” in order to graduate.

  Another would be to look at how many players each of our opponents have in the NFL compared to how many we have… maybe compare that to how many we have in Iraq and Afghanistan. There is another interesting column… I’m full of these, so if you run out of things to write about, don’t make stuff up. Just email me, and I’ll hook you up with something that will get some real “ooohs and ahhhs.”